Computer-Fi... reflexões

Se me permitem aproveitar o tópico, deixem-me fazer a seguinte pergunta:
O que é menos mau para um utilizador com um orçamento mais apertado?
- torre clássica?
- portátil?
- tablet/telemóvel?

Na minha cabeça imagino que um portátil tem menos ruído do que uma torre devido ao facto de não ter aquela fonte de alimentação enorme acoplada como na torre. Por outro lado, também já liguei um tablet de marca branca e um telemóvel HiSense a um amplificador e o resultado foi francamente mau. Péssimo, posso mesmo dizer! Qualquer deslizar no dedo era replicada nos altifalantes a nível de ruído!

Cylon escreveu:

Se me permitem aproveitar o tópico, deixem-me fazer a seguinte pergunta:
O que é menos mau para um utilizador com um orçamento mais apertado?
- torre clássica?
- portátil?
- tablet/telemóvel?

Na minha cabeça imagino que um portátil tem menos ruído do que uma torre devido ao facto de não ter aquela fonte de alimentação enorme acoplada como na torre. Por outro lado, também já liguei um tablet de marca branca e um telemóvel HiSense a um amplificador e o resultado foi francamente mau. Péssimo, posso mesmo dizer! Qualquer deslizar no dedo era replicada nos altifalantes a nível de ruído!

Na minha experiência, a opção, em que correu melhor foi a do portátil - um netbook de 2010 apenas com o W7 e o Foobar instalado e desligado da tomada   . A torre que tentei era de facto mais ruidosa e os tablets/telemóveis são uma incógnita (já testei bons e maus).

Portanto, assumindo que dispõe das 3 hipóteses, escolheria o portátil com o minimo de software a correr, o display desligado (é outra fonte ruído) e a funcionar a bateria.

Se vai gastar €€€ há opções low-cost mais interessantes, como:
https://www.allo.com/
https://volumio.org/shop/
ou por exemplo a que uso actualmente, com bons resultados: https://www.asus.com/us/Single-Board-Computer/Tinker-Board/ a correr o Volumio. (ou como alternativa mais económica o Raspberry PI3).

No entanto, a qualidade do DAC que vai utilizar é critica no resultado final.
Um bom DAC será mais imune a um sinal menos "limpo" proveniente da fonte digital (filtragem).
Um DAC mais simples fará a conversão DA de forma mais directa, podendo expor as fragilidades da fonte.

Assim:
1 - Não há dúvida que um Mac dedicado ligado a um DAC do mesmo valor produz muito bons resultados
2 - Um transporte USB ou Spdif com capacidade de processamento suficiente e baixo nivel de ruído à saída em parceria com um DAC competente, produzirá resultados muito interessantes e terá uma excelente relação €€€/som; há 10 anos atrás gastaria 10 vezes mais para o mesmo resultado - logo, nada mau

#cylon
tudo depende do uso,
no entanto eu prefiro o portatil pelo dito tamanho de 3 em 1.
qualquer ajuda extra posso-te dar a minha opinião em msg privada
pois fica muito OFFtopic

Obrigado a ambos. As minha intenções são apenas fazer de uns portáteis velhinhos que tenho cá por casa uns leitores para ficheiros MP3 de faixas que não tenha em mais nenhum formato. E até me referia até a usar directamente a saída da placa de som do mesmo - sem DAC's pelo meio - sendo portanto uma coisa não muito por aí além. Talvez só mesmo em último caso.

I experimented lastly a lot with audio player software (Audirvana/Roon/Volumio/HQplayer) and different configurations including Raspberry Pi, Uptone Regen and USB cables.
The point was that I heard differences, but only small ones and when I finally went back to the simplest setup Macbook - USB cable - anTidac, honestly I missed nothing compared to the more complicated setups!

I also tried upsampling with HQlayer several times but in the long run it made the sound not better, perhaps because my computer os too old and slow for advanced signal processing.

Then I saw in a German forum an offer for an used USB cable made by a forum member who manufactures cables in a semi-commercial way and sells them mainly to friends and in the forum. It had a nice blue-metallic braid hose and cost only 50 €, so I thought, why not try an ambitious USB cable, even it's only for the good feeling. I didn't expect anything ele than marginal changes in sound but, my god, was I wrong!

Here is what I heard and wrote to the seller after the first listening:


"The sound of the cable troubles me currently very much!
I do not really believe in USB cable sound and just thought that having a good USB cable for a manageable amount would not hurt.
But it sounds subjectively different than my other USB cables. Bigger stage, with better depth layeringring and better  dynamics. I've heard subtleties that I have not yet noticed. Actually, exactly what I yet have missed a bit in digital.

Strangely enough, the cable adds a somehow "dark" connotation, which I can not quite describe or classify which gave me after prolonged listening a slight ear pressure which was not the case otherwise.
I'm curious if that still changes with prolonged use or if it was possibly an autosuggestion."

I was lucky enough and the sideeffects of the "dark connotation" were not longer noticeable the next day and I could again not really believe what I heard. All sort of drums from bass drum to tom-toms had an enormous, almost frightening but totally effortless impact, same with the bass which had content down to never heard subsonic regions which means that the perceived dynamic has increased.

Everything is more pronounced layered in the depth and also the height of the virtual stage has increased, singers have a more realisitc height.

But also filigrane and quiet music like track 18. "Castor et Pollux, Acte I, Scene III: Prelude - Air accompagne 'Tristes apprets'" from the Rameaau recording by Teodor Currentzis sounded more intense and spatially better defined. The strings and voice act here often at the subtle threshold of tone creation which is presented very exquisitely.

And when powerful and quiet things are happening at the same time, they are now much more distinct and present. At the same time everything is connected in a musical way and the flow is much more natural.

Of course this makes me  happy - and disturbs me a lot because I don't have any reasonable explanation for that!

mannitheear escreveu:

(...)
Then I saw in a German forum an offer for an used USB cable made by a forum member who manufactures cables in a semi-commercial way and sells them mainly to friends and in the forum. It had a nice blue-metallic braid hose and cost only 50 €, so I thought, why not try an ambitious USB cable, even it's only for the good feeling. I didn't expect anything ele than marginal changes in sound but, my god, was I wrong!(...)

Olá mannitheear
Podes indicar qual é o fórum em causa e o nome do user que fabrica esse cabo?
Abraço

João Henrique escreveu:

Olá mannitheear
Podes indicar qual é o fórum em causa e o nome do user que fabrica esse cabo?
Abraço

Hi João Henrique,

it's the Open End Music Forum and the nickname of the user is "SolidCore" (Stephan).

Here are the relevant topics:

First version: https://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?t=9057
MK II version (which I have): https://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?t=9553

mannitheear escreveu:

... Of course this makes me  happy - and disturbs me a lot because I don't have any reasonable explanation for that! ...

In a global point of view the listening results with cables are very difficult to explain in a scientific point of view ... but when it comes to digital interconnects the explanation becomes much more difficult. You just have to acept the good and bad experiences, learn with that and keep the ones that "make" more music !!!...

Fabrice came yesterday and said me that he switched from Volumio to Roon and actually the anti-Dac works better than his other two Dac's that are costier and wanted an explanation for that! Of course i had none to give him ...

Digital is even strangiest than vinyl

Biz Man

TD124 escreveu:

In a global point of view the listening results with cables are very difficult to explain in a scientific point of view ... but when it comes to digital interconnects the explanation becomes much more difficult. You just have to acept the good and bad experiences, learn with that and keep the ones that "make" more music !!!...

Fabrice came yesterday and said me that he switched from Volumio to Roon and actually the anti-Dac works better than his other two Dac's that are costier and wanted an explanation for that! Of course i had none to give him ...

Digital is even strangiest than vinyl

Biz Man

I can easily understand the experience of Fabrice, because mine are essentially the same.

The latest version of Roon does not only have now the long awaited Qobuz integration but seem to me sonically very good, in my perception better than Audrivana now and Volumio 2 with the anti-Dac.

And paired with a good USB-cable it's really unbelievable what the little DAC does!

Biz Paulo!

mannitheear escreveu:

TD124 escreveu:

In a global point of view the listening results with cables are very difficult to explain in a scientific point of view ... but when it comes to digital interconnects the explanation becomes much more difficult. You just have to acept the good and bad experiences, learn with that and keep the ones that "make" more music !!!...

Fabrice came yesterday and said me that he switched from Volumio to Roon and actually the anti-Dac works better than his other two Dac's that are costier and wanted an explanation for that! Of course i had none to give him ...

Digital is even strangiest than vinyl

Biz Man

I can easily understand the experience of Fabrice, because mine are essentially the same.

The latest version of Roon does not only have now the long awaited Qobuz integration but seem to me sonically very good, in my perception better than Audrivana now and Volumio 2 with the anti-Dac.

And paired with a good USB-cable it's really unbelievable what the little DAC does!

Biz Paulo!

Hi Manfred,

Are you using Roon alone or in conjuction with HQ Player?

Best,
Ricardo

Hi Ricardo,

I use Roon alone. Have tried HQplayer several times but in my setup it doesn't improve the sound.